The 10-Page Torture Test
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Author Topic: 10PTT: Down in a Hole by Jawbreaker  (Read 4753 times)
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Pitchpatch
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 04:54 PM »

It was good to see you defend against some of the 10PTT suggested changes.  It tells me you had something particular in mind when you wrote those bits.  That you composed with care and for deliberate effect.  That's reason enough to favor the original in those cases.

These 10PTTs are an externalization of the inner dialogue churning in all writers as we pound words onto the page.  Is there a better way?  Is this good enough?  Is it clear?  Sometimes the answer is yes straight away.  Questioning is part of the continuous revision process.  Novelists are lucky.  They have an editor nipping at their heels, pushing to make it better, better, better, then okay, now it's ready to publish.  Screenwriters don't have that.
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2011, 01:33 AM »

Mine is a mouth full.

That's what he said?
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2011, 01:50 PM »

And goddammit, yes, I need to read me some Tony Gilroy.  Can you believe I've managed to read exactly none of his scripts to date.  For shame.  I promise to remedy that soon.

I'm halfway through BOURNE IDENTITY and I see what you mean about the em dashes.  It's an effective stylistic touch.

I like too how Gilroy uses repetition for recognition: "First of all..." mirroring the assassin toolkits.  Any writing that feels like YOU ARE THERE AND THIS IS HAPPENING NOW is good screenwriting.  Immersive stuff.

So yes, I do now see the Gilroy-ish flourishes you applied to DOWN IN A HOLE.



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« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2011, 04:42 PM »

It was good to see you defend against some of the 10PTT suggested changes.  It tells me you had something particular in mind when you wrote those bits.  That you composed with care and for deliberate effect.  That's reason enough to favor the original in those cases.

These 10PTTs are an externalization of the inner dialogue churning in all writers as we pound words onto the page.  Is there a better way?  Is this good enough?  Is it clear?  Sometimes the answer is yes straight away.  Questioning is part of the continuous revision process.  Novelists are lucky.  They have an editor nipping at their heels, pushing to make it better, better, better, then okay, now it's ready to publish.  Screenwriters don't have that.

I meant to say this a while ago, but I kept forgetting -- I wasn't defending against the changes or whatever.  In fact, I agreed with a lot of what you said.  But yeah, I'm not arrogant enough to believe my shit doesn't need changes.  Like you said, we have to stay open to new ideas and ways of doing things.  That's how this shit works.  You can't be stuck to anything.

So anyway, I just wanted to say that --  don't want you to think your observations were shit or anything.
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« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2011, 02:24 PM »

Writers are sensitive (the good ones, anyway).  Having your words questioned is a prickly thing.  Taking a defensive posture is a natural first response.  If I felt you bristling I would've backed off quickly.  I never got that vibe.  Quite the opposite: your robust responses kept me on my toes, questioning and reshaping my own opinions.  That's what they call facile dialectic.  I hoped that 10PTTs would evolve into a spirited two-sided investigation, and finally I got my wish.

If I challenge an author to consider another way then I'm open to being challenged back.  That's healthy.  The object is not to reach consensus but for the parties to test for weaknesses in their own opinion and come to a better understanding of the other party's opinion.  Regardless if a party accepts the other's observations or stands their ground, the process has served its purpose: either the challenged party confirms the validity of their original text or the challenged party incorporates aspects of the other's observations.  That's a win-win result.

When discussing the topic of revising and rewriting I can't help but turn to Pixar.  Their motto is: fail quickly (the faster you fail, the sooner you discover what works).  From what I know about Pixar, if a writer's not constantly wrestling with his thoughts, words, and pages then he's not welcome in their house. Pixar's other motto is: wake me up when you get to draft 60.  (Working at Pixar is my idea of a benevolent hell.)

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« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2011, 03:35 AM »

Yeah, it was fun and oddly therapeutic.  Felt good to go back and forth about structure and whatnot... to have new ideas and insights coming into the flow...

But anyway, that's good to hear.  Glad we both got something out of it.
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